Communication

Rule 075 | All Is Fair In Love And Politics

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We’re talking about politics and it’s just in time for the midterm elections. Facebook-Gerard is glad to be back but Uncensored-Jessie is unsure about his arrival. Social media may cause a sense of split-personalities but apparently, it’s even harder to for these two to agree on important condiment decisions as a family.

Thanks to PrepDish + Season for making this episode possible! Click right here to learn more about our sponsors and head to our site for more info about how to support the show.

QUICK BITES:

  • It’s high time to revisit some of the things that we talked about in Episode 27. (Pretty funny to the last time we tried to tackle a similar subject, pre-Trump.)

  • Gerard explains how digiphrenia has been a very real experience for him. If you’d like to learn more, we recommend the book Present Shock by Douglas Rushkoff.

  • The infamous FB post has since been deleted, but Gerard’s sentiment remains the same and Jessie happens to agree.

  • Tearing down someone’s character is an unfair and ineffective way to win an argument online. (Especially if you’re attacking someone who is married to a collegiate-champion debate captain.)

  • We’re looking for ways to have real-life chats with people about what they believe, but we promise not to ruin the evening if you end up having us over for dinner.

  • Pacifism resurfaces in the form of a lurking husband that is covered in camouflage... We talked about this last (minus the weeds and the machete) back in Episode 49.

  • Gerard’s edgy approach to twitter has created conflict in our midst and it’s something that that gets Jessie riled up about, even after a full year has passed.

  • The podcast called “I love you, but I hate your politics” has been broadening our perspective of what it means to love someone who may be on the opposite side of the aisle.

TRIGGER QUESTIONS:

  1. Who’s more political on social media -- you or your partner?

  2. How does it make you feel when your partner posts about something online that you happen to disagree with?

  3. Have you ever made a joke (either in person or online) that got taken out of context?

Rule 074 | Venting Is The Best Way To Let Out Hot Air

The Peppers discuss the distinct value of having a group of friends who can love you despite the occasional need for an honest debrief. Gerard asserts that drinking scotch with dudes makes a great backdrop for discussing scripture* while Jessie agrees that having close friendships are a key element to the pursuit of Great Love. Their conversation proves that gender stereotypes do not matter when it comes to communication and despite some overanalyzing, the two learn a ton from completing the full-loop together.

*No confidentiality codes were harmed in the making of this episode.

Thanks to PrepDish, Ritual + Follain for making this episode possible! Click right here to learn more about our sponsors and head to our site for more info about how to support the show.


QUICK BITES:

  • Jessie + Gerard have very different approaches when it comes to walking into a party. Take the Strengthsfinder test to find out if you’re a woo or a relator.

  • Men deal with chronic loneliness more than most people might think. Gerard referenced this piece about masculinity after telling about the men’s retreat that he went on with our church. → “What’s the problem with men in America?”

  • Venting is not an excuse to slap the other person across the face with an insult, it’s about releasing of internal pressure and understanding each other more fully.

  • Take a peek at the full definition of the term triangulation to find out if it could be something that happens in your own marriage.

  • Jessie is a stickler for restaurant service, but she sometimes needs some help when it comes to speaking her mind.

  • Gerard vents his work frustrations when he gets home from work, and Jessie is keen to let him so that they can get it out of the way and get on with their evenings.

  • Using a protective forcefield is key when your partner needs to share but you don’t want your feelings to get hurt. Whether it’s a preface or a footnote: give your partner a head’s up before you launch into a diatribe.

  • Being honest with each other about faith has been something that tends to trip us up when it comes to venting. Waiting until the other person is open to receiving the feedback is the only way we’ve been able to navigate this space, but it’s tempting to blurt things out before your partner is ready to talk.

  • We loved reading The Zim Zum of Love to get a better idea of the connection between us... The idea is this: Marriage is like a magnetic force that deserves to be protected.


TRIGGER QUESTIONS:

  1. Do you consider yourself to be more of a woo or a relator?

  2. If the the wrong meal gets delivered to you at a restaurant, are you more likely to send back your food or just eat it anyway?

  3. How would you describe the difference between venting and complaining?

  4. Who are the people in your life that provide space for accountability and emotional safety?

Rule 040 | Custom Domain Names Make Horrible Baby Gifts

This episode is a long-awaited answer to the most frequently asked question of our entire podcast... Why the heck don't The Peppers have any kids?! Jessie's little brother stops in as our special guest, and he keeps us both in line as the emotions start to flow.

Don't forget to leave us a review on iTunes, and send us a tweet if you have something to share while you listen!
 

QUICK BITES: 

  • You might remember our special guest from last season when he crashed our closet in NYC, and promptly divulged the story behind one of our dirtiest fights.

  • Jessie tries to be nice when people ask her about having kids, but it’s usually way too tempting to pull out the smart-assery instead.

  • Gerard gets annoyed when people make assumptions about our decision, but Joey reminds us that excitement loves company.

  • The Peppers would have to start sleeping in the same bed again if they had to make room for a nursery.

  • Pre-engagement counseling (yes, that is a thing) was the moment we realized that we saw eye to eye about starting a family.

  • Jessie is worried that her grandmotherly daydreams are never going to happen, but Gerard reassures her that he’ll always be around to pluck her chin hairs.

  • Both sets of our parents have been incredibly understanding about the decision not to have kids, but their own friends have not stopped trying to force the issue.

  • Gerard makes the clear distinction between a decision and a diagnosis.

  • Jessie loses her shit over losing dear friends over such a decisive choice.

  • The Peppers insist that they love hosting families as Casa de Pepper, but parents are better off bringing sippie cups and outlet covers since the baby-proofing has yet to happen.

  • Gerard’s top two celebrity crushes have a baby together, and the wife’s outlook on kids has given Jessie permission to embrace the feeling of a complete family.

  • A shocking admission at the end of the show leaves both Jessie + G with a ton of resolve towards our desire to bless and nurture others.  

 

LOOKING FOR OTHER WAYS TO MAKE AN IMPACT?

The Great Love Gang has shared so many wonderful resources with us over in the Facebook group, and we would love to pass along some of the many ways that YOU can make an impact on the lives of children and families who need extra guidance and support:

  • Impacting Hearts - Weekly mentorship for children currently living in a foster home. (Los Angeles / Orange County)
  • Safe Families - Short term foster care and family assistance. (70 US Cities)
  • CASA - An organization that connects volunteers with at-risk youth who need the constant adult presence that many of them lack. (49 US states)
  • Buckner International - Volunteer opportunities for four different types of family ministries. (Texas + Abroad)
  • The Call - Connecting foster care and adoptive families to children in need. (Arkansas)
  • AdoptUS Kids - Raising public awareness and providing resources for both states and families who are hoping to adopt or foster children.
     

TRIGGER QUESTIONS:

  1. What is your opinion on how much or how little some parents share of their kids online?
     
  2. Regardless of whether or not you are a parent now, can you remember visualizing yourself as a mom or dad when you were little?
     
  3. Have you ever lost a friend because of the addition of kids? (Either yours or theirs.) How did this happen and how did it make you feel?

We're celebrating the official start of summer AND the end of Season Two at our finale party on May 29th!  

Find out how to join us right here and we would LOVE to see you then. 

Rule 039.5 | Talking About Sex Makes It Even Better (Part II)

Part II of the sex series on Marriage is Funny! Gerard and Jessie share their thoughts on important things like abstinence, foreplay, and experimenting in the bedroom. The Peppers are joined by expert Kate McCombs, and her wisdom continues to inspire the Great Love Gang to be more intentional toward intimacy. (Be sure to listen to Episode 39 for Part I with Kate!)

Don't forget to leave us a review on iTunes, and send us a tweet if you have something to share while you listen!

QUICK BITES:

  • Q1: My husband says he isn’t a kissing guy, but I need foreplay in order to have sex. How can I fulfill his needs without making him do something that he doesn’t want to do?

  • Cooking is like sex. Creativity and variety are two ways to be very good at it.

  • AASECT.org is a great resource for finding a sex therapist that you can visit with your partner.

  • Jessie’s adventures in finding a counselor continue to be entertaining. (You may notice that Ep 9 in Season One is starting to sound familiar.)

  • Q2: How can we build up more courage in the bedroom? Is there an easy way to tell my partner I think they are boring in bed?

  • Creating a “sex lab” could be the best way to start experimenting in the bedroom... Check out Kate's article about how to set the mood in your own home.

  • Q3: Is there a right way or a wrong way to suggest the use of toys and tools?

  • Never break the laws of bad sexual etiquette... The pleasure of your partner matters just as much as your own.

  • Gerard and Jessie were sure to park in the back when they drove to the sex shop in Episode 20.

  • Q4: What do I do when my husband wants it and I don’t? Is faking it ok?

  • It’s important to tell our partners exactly when and how they’ve blessed us in order to build up their "cushion" when times are good.

  • Q5: How can I initiate sex when I know my partner doesn’t feel like it?

  • Kate explains the difference between justification vs clarification when it comes to turning down your partner when they’re making a move.

TRIGGER QUESTIONS:

  1. What is the most surprising thing that your partner has ever done in bed?
  2. When was the last time you talked to your partner about sex? When was the last time you talked to someone besides your partner about sex?
  3. What was the most intimate moment that you had with your partner this week?

We're celebrating the official start of summer AND the end of Season Two at our finale party on May 29th!  

Find out how to join us right here and we would LOVE to see you then. 

    Rule 039 | When In Doubt, Just Ask A Sexpert (Part I)

    This week, Jessie and Gerard are chatting with Sex & Relationships Expert, Kate McCombs. They excitedly pepper her with a handful of questions submitted by the Great Love Gang, but you'll also hear a tiny bit about their own intimacy adventures as well. (If you enjoy this conversation, be sure to subscribe to Marriage is Funny on your favorite podcast player, and listen in for Part II that will go live on Friday!)

    Don't forget to leave us a review on iTunes, and send us a tweet if you have something to share while you listen!

    QUICK BITES:

    • You guys blew us away with your 70+ responses to our sex survey! Missed the chance to weigh in? Feel free to share your thoughts right here and we’ll do it again if there’s enough interest.
       
    • The Peppers are currently sleeping in separate beds, and Kate confirms that there’s nothing wrong with a good night’s rest.
       
    • Q1: How can a couple make time for sex when they both want it, but one (or both) partners feel tired or blah?
       
    • Kate (figuratively) drops the mic with a helpful tip about reframing the way you set up a sex date.
       
    • Gerard blurts out his own secret idea for how he setting the scene in order to get busy.
       
    • Q2: How can someone overcome the challenge of painful sex?
       
    • The best lube is made from Good Clean Love. (And that's probably the only thing about us that you’ve never wanted to know.)
       
    • Finding the right Dr. or physical therapist should be the first step towards treating painful sex… Check the National Vulvodynia Association to find a practitioner near you.
       
    • Q3: I like making love, but can rarely get myself to make the first move. How am I supposed to initiate sex when I never feel horny?
       
    • The book Come As You Are by Emily Nagaski is next up on The Peppers “to read” list.
       
    • Q4: I’m anxious about having sex, and we hardly do it anymore. How can I get back to actually craving physical intimacy with my husband (as much as I used to)?
       
    • Q5: How does hormonal birth control have an impact on a women’s libido?
       
    • Q6: What are some ways to try and reverse a low libido?
       
    • Q7: Is there any way to intensify a man’s orgasm?
       
    • Q8: How can my partner and I climax at the same time?
       
    • Kate confirms that eight out of every 10 women need clitoral stimulation in order to achieve an orgasm.
       
    • Jessie and Gerard read YOUR sex-related wish-list in a rapid fire succession.
       
    • In many cases, having a conversation about what you want out of sex can actually feel more intimate than actually having sex.
       
    • Q9: What are some ways we bring up sex with our partner without making things awkward.
       
    • Start small and share things that give you some context for your chats! Kate's website is a great resource and we love her rundown of how to add more empathy to your everyday. 

    TRIGGER QUESTIONS:

    1. Name one thing that tends to "press down on the brakes" of your sexual desire.
    2. What is your favorite (most optimal) time of the day to have sex?
    3. Describe your experience of sex-education (either at home or school) from when you were young.

    We're celebrating the official start of summer AND the end of Season Two at our finale party on May 29th!  

    Find out how to join us right here and we would LOVE to see you then. 

    Rule 035 | Too Much Twerking May Get You Into Trouble

    We're back and the Great Love Getaway was a huge success! Listen in for the highlights of our trip: Bear-hugging, fire-dancing, pants-splitting, guacamole-eating, tequila-drinking, pool-dipping... The list goes on and we're already getting excited for next time. In this week's discussion, The Peppers talk about why it's important to daydream together, and they come up with a list of the things that you shouldn't do when looking for another duo to be your marriage mentors.

    Hard to believe we're nearing the end of another season, but that means we're now accepting sponsors for Season Three of the show!

    Contact us directly for more info, and be sure to save the date for our finale party on May 29th.

     

    QUICK BITES:

    • The GLG guests give a recap of the best moments in their own words.
       
    • Watch the full video by Kelly Dlux to pretend like you were there, and start getting excited to join us for the next trip.
       
    • Taking our guests along with us for a dreamlining exercise... Courtesy of Tim Ferris and his book, The 4-Hour Work Week.
       
    • Gerard sets out to start working on his fitness, but Jessie thought he might have been polishing his comedy craft instead. See his inspiration photo here:
    • Becoming conversational in Spanish is still on our minds from Episode 18.
       
    • Jessie is dreaming about having a vegetable garden, becoming the author of a published book, and hosting another Great Love Getaway in the fall... Lofty goals, but it feels good to get them off her chest.
       
    • Being a full-time podcaster might feel daunting, but Gerard encourages Jessie to go for it anyway. You can get a teeny-tiny sneak peek at her upcoming project right here.
       
    • The Peppers are already excited to plan another GLG, and the only problem now will be reigning in the vision.
       
    • “Marriage isn’t something that should be done in isolation. If having us share our stories can give other people comfort or encouragement or a jumping off point for their own relationships, then that’s wonderful -- and this getaway is the in-person version of that.” -G
       
    • Marriage mentors can certainly be a blessing, but digging into life with a strong community of married couples can be just as life-giving.
       
    • Jessie shares three things NOT to do when looking for marriage mentors.
       
    • The differences in diverse relationships create so many wonderful opportunities for learning from each other.
       
    • You may remember Tim + Mimi Keel from Episode 8... We're lucky enough to call them friends, and they've inspired and encouraged us ever since our years at Jacob’s Well.
       
    • The Peppers feel so grateful for their community that has grown since they first got married, but being blessed means that they want to turn around and pour themselves out into other married couples.

     

    TRIGGER QUESTIONS:

    1. If it really came down to it, would you rather have a six-pack of abs or a six-pack of beer?
       
    2. What is one splurge-y thing that you could daydreaming about having in the next six months?
       
    3. Can you think of one couple you know that might be blessed by spending some quality time with you and your partner?

    Don't forget to leave us a review on iTunes, sign up for our mailing list and send us a tweet if you have something to share while you listen!

    Rule 034 | Come Up With A Code Word To Avoid Conflict

    An accidental-repeat topic that you won’t want to miss. Gerard claims he has an urgent issue with his in-laws, and Jessie is hoping to protect both Peppers from getting badly burned on the Great Love Getaway in Mexico this week. Catch snippets from our trip on social media: we're @styleandpepper on snapchat/insta and @meetthepeppers on twitter.

    Hard to believe we're nearing the end of another season, but that means we're now accepting sponsors for Season Three of the show!

    Contact us directly for more info, and be sure to save the date for our finale party on May 29th.

     

    QUICK BITES:

    • Gerard compares Jessie’s proficiency for packing to the athleticism of an olympic athlete. Flattering, but highly inaccurate.
       
    • We do our packing much like we do our laundry... As far away from each other as humanly possible.
       
    • Jessie is fanatical about sunscreen application. She has favorites for both face and body, and even uses one that comes infused with bug spray.
       
    • Gerard denies that he has rules for his approach to sun exposure, but Jessie points out that history says otherwise.
       
    • The Peppers find out that taking care of yourself applies to both skincare AND fast food.
       
    • Gerard tries to uncover why he sometimes acts rude when they visit Jessie’s parents.
       
    • A snippy comment after a rough day can end up being the straw that breaks the wifey’s back.
       
    • Hilarious brothers are sometimes a blessing in disguise. We’ll prove it by pointing you toward the episode with little bro Joey from last season.
       
    • The Peppers tend to revert to their childlike selves whenever they visit their families. The Mom’s love to dote, but Jessie insists on pitching in. (And ruining Gerard’s vacations at the same time.)
       
    • Come up with a code-word to avoid conflict, and remember that co-piloting a situation is always the best plan.
       

    TRIGGER QUESTIONS: 

    1. When you’re taking a trip together, do you pack separately or in the same suitcase? How did this approach come about?
       
    2. Have you ever gotten so sunburned that it actually made you sick?
       
    3. What is one self-care habit that you wish your partner would be better at?

    Don't forget to leave us a review on iTunes, sign up for our mailing list and send us a tweet if you have something to share while you listen!

    Rule 033 | Never Forget That You're On The Same Team

    The Peppers get real about their vows and open up about the challenge of living with chronic pain. Jessie woos Gerard with some baked salmon and a basketball game, but when the going gets tough he throws her under the team bus.

    If you happen to have a friend who experiences or is married to someone who has chronic health issues, would you please consider sharing this episode with them?

    We're happy to pour out our hearts as a way to encourage others, and we would love your help in making sure that this show reaches exactly the right ears. 
     

    QUICK BITES:

    • A General Note: Our marriage isn’t perfect, but our commitment is real. Hear the full run-down in the first few minutes of this week’s show.
       
    • Jessie didn’t get invited to fill our a March Madness bracket this year, and the KU Jayhawks will probably win because of it.
       
    • Becky Murphy Simpson should win an ESPY for her clever YAY SPORTS t-shirt.
       
    • The Sweet Sixteen tournament has nothing to do with the MTV show of the  same name. (Most wives would be way more excited about watching big games if there were fireworks and fancy dresses involved.)
       
    • The Peppers very first Valentine’s Day together set a precedent for our sports watching habits, and now you’ll hear why Gerard has been trying to make up for it ever since.
       
    • Jessie pulls a "Barney Stinson" by wooing Gerard with a home-cooked meal and a half-time make-out session.
       
    • His and hers henleys… Are these still a thing? We should make these a thing.
       
    • The Jayhawks mascot is NOT the same thing as Foghorn Leghorn from Looney Tunes. The Peppers send many apologies to all of our fellow Rock Chalk fans.
       
    • Jessie tries to explain that there is a distinct difference between “not loving a sport” and “hating a sport.”Gerard throws Jessie under the bus when it comes to whether or not she really loves the teams that have his heart.
       
    • Twitter makes it a lot easier to keep up with the commentary, but nothing beats plopping down in a recliner to enjoy your favorite teams. Bonus points if you bust out the killer bean dip.
       
    • Do they still make TVs with picture in picture? We will check into this and report back. (Thank goodness for the ability to watch sports on our special “appy-things.”)
       
    • Listening to Science Mike on The Liturgists Podcast gives some helpful perspective on processing thoughts and emotions.
       
    • Jessie dives right in and describes what she calls The Six Layers of Chronic Pain. Her health challenges have been a part of The Peppers relationship for longer than they’ve even been married, and they're still getting used to having it as their fairly unfortunate third-wheel.
       
    • If you haven't met Debbie Downer from Saturday Night Live, you're in for a real "treat" and you can thank us later.
       
    • The book Daring Greatly by Brene Brown gives us helpful language around identifying and dealing with our emotions of shame.
       
    • Jessie learns that noticing patterns within her interactions with Gerard can teach her a lot about how to heal the mishaps. (No matter how annoying they may be.)
       
    • We assure you that Jessie has not actually ever received medical treatment from a man standing on a corner, but we cannot make any promises about the future at this point.

       

    TRIGGER QUESTIONS:

    1. Does your spouse have a special interest that you could blow them away by getting excited about?
       
    2. Have you ever pretended to be jazzed about a sporting event in order to impress a date?
       
    3. What brings you the most comfort when you're feeling sick or in physical pain?

    Don't forget to leave us a review on iTunes, sign up for our mailing list and tweet to us at @meetthepeppers if you have something to share while you listen!

    Rule 025 | Valentine's Day Doesn't Owe You Anything

    The Peppers have a unique approach to Valentine's Day that can sometimes feel like a bit of a drag. Find out how we stay connected during a lapse of romance, and listen as we stumble towards a system for divvying up the household chores.

    QUICK BITES:

    • Puerto Vallarta here we come! Start packing your flip flops and get all of the Great Love Getaway details right here. Stay tuned for registration to open on February 14th!
       
    • Each couple that comes with us gets a comp Creative Marriages shoot with our friends Michelle + Kelly -- Come hang out with us and get bear hugged at their launch event on Valentine's Day in Orange County.
       
    • Gerard kicks things off with a very directed question, and Jessie tries to skirt around the answer by picking on his semantics.
       
    • Jessie wants Valentine’s Day to be about celebrating love, not comparing each other to societal norms... No fancy restaurants. No jewelry. (Gerard is elated at the fact that this has now been recorded on tape.)
       
    • Gerard understands there is always room for creativity and growth, and wants to be able to give Jessie something to look forward to. He also wants a backrub, but his fingers will be crossed until then.
       
    • The Peppers realize that the whole point of Valentine’s Day is to feel more connected to the ones that you love... There are endless opportunities to shower your partner with romance, but it doesn't have to stop at special occasions.
       
    • Jessie throws in the towel on dish duty. (After a mere 4 DAYS of giving it her all.) She’s confused about the chores around the house because of Gerard’s change of schedule... except for vacuuming. She’s very clear on who vacuums.
       
    • Gerard engineered a tin can tower that has spurred on some feelings of passive aggressiveness.
       
    • At the root of it, we both prefer deep connections over a dozen roses. (But let’s be honest, Jessie would NEVER turn down her favorite chocolate bar.)

    TRIGGER QUESTIONS:

    • When was the last time you felt romanced by your partner?
       
    • What is your least favorite chore of allllll time? 
       
    • Would you rather celebrate Valentine's Day with a really good back rub or the darkest chocolate that money can buy?

    Don't forget to leave us a review on iTunes, sign up for our mailing list and send us a tweet if you have something to share while you listen!

    Rule 020 | Champagne Bottles Are Always Meant To Be Popped

    The Peppers are celebrating their first season finale with a bottle of bubbly and a bungalow full of new friends on the last stop of their tour.

    THIS WEEK’S EPISODE WAS BROUGHT TO YOU BY AIRBNB! JOIN US BY LISTING YOUR OWN SPACE ON THE SITE, AND NEW USERS WILL GET A $25 CREDIT TOWARDS YOUR NEXT ADVENTURE. 

    TRIGGER QUESTIONS: 

    • What is your all-time favorite beverage to celebrate a special occasion?
    • What is one expectation that you currently have about the upcoming week? How can you communicate that fairly and gently to your partner?
    • If you could pick the theme of our next Valentine's Day progressive dinner party, what would it be? (Submissions welcome.)

    Don't forget... Our Season Two premiere will go live on January 6th, but since that feels like EONS away -- We've made it easy to keep in touch in the meantime:

    Subscribe to the show ON ITUNES, SIGN UP FOR OUR newsletter AND KEEP IN TOUCH BETWEEN SEASONS BY coming to hang out with us IN THE PRIVATE FACEBOOK GROUP!

     

    Rule 017 | Don't Get A Puppy Unless You're Ready To Be A Parent

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    The Peppers are in the middle of their On The Road tour, and this episode comes to you from the basement of some of their gracious hosts. Gerard tells Jessie he wants to add another member to the family, but she explains why she's not so ready. They discuss how co-hosting a podcast about marriage has impacted their own life, and agree that taking a quick break in the fall will give them a chance to get caught up on creating season two.
     

    QUICK BITES:

    • Many thanks to our generous hosts and the listeners who’ve come out to support us so far! BIG extra-special bear hugs go to...
      • Erin + Matt for giving us a gorgeous place to stay and serving up a beautiful spread for the first event of the tour
      • Allie + Adam for letting us gather in their creative space in Columbus
      • Chris + Sarah for opening up their home in Grand Rapids and throwing a backyard BBQ to celebrate the end of summer
      • Merl + Bobby for sharing a place to rest our heads AND a lovely studio to host a handful of the sweetest Chicago listeners
         
    • Special thanks to Sprint for helping to make our On The Road tour possible! Be sure to check out the special highlights of our trip that we're sharing over on their feed, and follow along with styleandpepper on snapchat for more fun clips of our behind the scenes. ;)
       
    • Don't forget: you can find our full tour details right here... We'd love to meet you, so come out and hug us if you dare!
       

    TRIGGER QUESTIONS:

    • If you could live out of any vehicle (while driving across the country) for three weeks, what would it be and why?
    • Does your own family currently seem complete? What would it take to make it feel that way?
    • What topics would you cover if you had your own podcast?